HBS announced the tentative Class of 2011 profile and I want to take this opportunity to discuss some specifics that would apply to military candidates since in the past most of that information has been largely a mystery. But first, some general observations:
- Class size was increased from about 900 to 942. Does this mean all previous classes will soon refer to themselves as the "last hard class" to get into? Did we have lower standards? Well, applications also went up, so the total acceptance rate for the class of 2010 and 2011 are identical (12%). It will be interesting to see if this is a temporary or permanent change to the HBS class size.
- Almost half of those accepted (47%) finished undergrad within the last 3 years. HBS is only getting younger - last year it was 40%. See my post on ages at HBS for more info.
I did some of my own research to account for the sources of successful military applicants. For the purposes of these numbers, I'm not counting non-US military personnel. Some countries have compulsory military duty, and I think that they may warrant a different data set for proper interpretation. So let's just discuss US military for now. There are about 31 US military MBA candidates (3%) that make up the class. Most of them have a total of 4-5 years (initial obligation) in the Armed Forces. Here are some figures:
- Army: 13 (42%)
- Navy: 9 (29%)
- Marines: 6 (19%)
- Air Force: 2 (6%)
- Coast Guard: 1 (4%)
- US Military Academy: 7 (23%)
- US Naval Academy: 6 (19%)
- US Air Force Academy: 1 (4%)
- US Coast Guard Academy: 1 (4%)
- Non-service academy: 16 (52%)
Now let's look at the military background. I'm going to introduce some of my own non-doctrinal definitions for this. I have three categories: Combat Arms (Infantry, Armor, Special Forces), Combat Support (Artillery, direct air support), General Support (everything else, such as intel, signal, logistics, etc). I know some people will have a problem with this ground force biased definition, but hey... I'm not writing doctrine here.
- Combat Arms: 6 (19%)
- Combat Support: 3 (11%)
- General Support: 22 (71%)
Please note that NONE of these numbers are official HBS numbers, nor are they guaranteed to be 100% accurate. There may be 1 or 2 military guys that I missed when compiling the statistics. Nonetheless, the numbers should be of value to every curious military applicant out there wondering where s/he fits in. And that's another note; all 31 officers are male.
Final note: the picture in this blog obviously has nothing to do with HBS. It is however one of my favorite pictures of perhaps the greatest "class" of US military leaders ever assembled for a photograph.
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Thanks for putting this information together. It is extremely helpful. Do you know of any data for military admits for previous years? The typical age for military officers in your class would be 26-28, right? As far the "three M" myth goes, if we treat the US military as one organization, how does 3% stack up against those coming from other large organizations? For example, how many former McKinsey, Bain, BCG, Goldman, or IBM are there? It is, after all a comparative issue: 3% from a single organization may or may not be large depending on what it is being compared to. That said, it means that all 11(I am assuming they are not increasing the headcount per section from 90, but please correct me if I am wrong) first year sections will likely have one student from the Army and 1-2 students from the other branches. That would see like comparatively good representation.
ReplyDeleteAdam,
ReplyDeleteI would also tend to believe that the median military MBA candidates age is around 27 at time of matriculation, though I would guess the mean might be aruond 28. HBS lists on their blog that the class is 23% consultants, or about 216 students. I think the main data point I am missing is how many military candidates APPLIED. Did 27 get in out of 100? Or out of 500? Did 216 consultants get in out of 1000? Or out of 5000? I think interpreting the numbers further is therefore limited. Based on my personal, VERY limited anecdotal experience, about 1 in 5 or 6 military people get accepted. Although one has to remember that very very few military people apply to HBS, so it is already a highly self-selected group. As far as application experience of consultants and numbers, I obviously have no information. There is obviously a much higher per capita application rate from McKinsey than there is from the military. But without additional numbers, I wouldn't know how to compare acceptance (and matriculation) rates.
Thank you for your response. The lack of numbers is really the issue. At least with HBS, they do a good job of providing data for those they admit. I wish all the other schools were as transparent about this.
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to your posts when you are at HBS.
Cheers,
Adam
Hello, your blog is very helpful...thanks!! Two questions here...I will appreciate very much if you could briefly share your thougts..I'm a South Korean and planning to apply HBS this year (class of 2012). Even though you mentioned you're counting only US military personnel..I feel pretty discouraged now after looking at the statistics because I have about 6yrs of work experience(3.5yrs at Air Force as a First Lieutenant + 1yr at Deutsche Bank + 1.5yr at a plastic-manufacturing family business) and am 29 years old. 1) Do you think HBS will take my military background more seriously than other B-schools in terms of leadership experience? 2) Do you think the fact that I have a very clear and rather safe career path(a CFO at a family business) makes me a better candidate? Thanks again..
ReplyDeleteHi Joonam,
ReplyDeleteI'll be brief...
1) I don't HBS values military service any more or less than most top business schools; all top business schools want some military representation in their class because of the unique skills military leaders bring.
2) I don't think a "safe" path makes you a better candidate, because if it was so safe, then why would you need to come to HBS in the first place? Why not just learn from a book or online courses? I think your military and family situation COULD be a large advantage however, if you could use your background to help show HBS why you will fulfill their mission of "educating leaders who make a difference in the world." I would approach it looking first at how HBS will help you run your family business better, and what impact you want to have in the world with it, and why.
Best of luck!
Thanks a lot for your comment...!
ReplyDeleteYou might not have the data on this, but I was wondering if you knew the average GMAT scores for military applicants to HBS. I'm currently an active duty Naval Officer and I just took the GMAT and scored a 700 (46Q 39V).
ReplyDeleteThis is slightly below the median for the entire HBS class, but I wanted to know if you knew whether or not military applicants had perhaps a different average score from the rest of the field. Do you think I should retake the GMAT again?
Hosbourn,
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the average military GMAT score is. I would guess it's very close to the overall school average. Given that you got a pretty good quant score, I don't think a 730 or 740 GMAT would have a significant improvement in your odds of acceptance (unless you have a low GPA you're compensating for). If you can raise it to 760, then maybe. Otherwise, I would really focus on your essays instead.
I have reiterate what Adam said...thank you for putting this blog together. I created a post 9/11 GI Bill on a sheet of paper then stumbled onto your blog (should have found it sooner). I am currently an officer in the Air Force (1.5 years in). I plan on applying to HBS in two years and will be 27 then. I have a 3.8 GPA in engineering and will take the GMAT next month (680-700 range on practice test). I am in the acquisition field and serve as a project manager for a large program. What would your advice be on improving my chances for HBS? Thanks and I hope to read more of your posts!
ReplyDelete- Dennis
Dennis, shoot me an email. militarytobusiness@gmail.com.
ReplyDeleteThanks for all the great comments and questions so far. I'm applying to HBS for the class of 2011. I did 9 years enlisted in the Marine Corps infantry and I'm wondering if anyone knows how many enlisted military are at HBS. My most recent deployment was to Afghanistan where I was an E6, platoon sergeant and ANP mentor on a PMT team.
ReplyDeleteEric,
ReplyDeleteI'm not aware of any students who came directly from being enlisted, though that is a common question, and I can assure you there is no reason why your military experience would limit admissions. If anything, your fresh perspective might make you more attractive to the school. Reach out to me when planning your applications and I'll see if I can help.
Hi I am Capt Kandarp Patel, an officer in indian army. I am currently serving in the corps of Logistics (technical arm) providing repair and recovery cover to major defence equipment used by our army. I am due for release in mar 2012. My query for you is how valuable are army officers application from foreign armies.Being serving officer, my preparation time for gmats is very minimum. So do you suggest that i go for the kill and apply for Aug 2012 course at harvard, or should i take an year off and prepare well for gmats and then actually apply to the school.Kindly guide me
ReplyDeleteRegards
Kandarp
Capt
Indian Army
Kandarp, I would not suggest applying with a lower GMAT score than your peers in the private sector. If you cannot get within 20-30 points, then I would possibly choose to wait until you can. During your one year in between though, you would need to do something very active and interesting in order to be attractive to HBS, in addition to increasing your GMAT score.
ReplyDeleteAs a Career Coach at HBS, I'd like to add a few comments.
ReplyDeleteThe common thread on all the vets are outstanding achievements. Some have had exemplary education/GPA/GMAT, other are not exceptional. Several have come to HBS directly from the service and essentially no other work experience, others have some private sector experience. There is no formula that I am aware of, except that I am awed by their achievements, not merely impressed.
A successful candidate usually has done something interesting, and not just followed the career path of the herd. HBS is looking for leaders: start something, make something happen, be courageous and change countries/industries, do something with impact, demonstrate you have done something creative or innovative. Learn some languages (yes, plural) and know some other cultures. Often these things are outside of work/service since many jobs are so very tightly proscribed from real change.
GMATs are highly overrated as an entry criteria. This year at least one candidate was accepted with a 490, last year someone had a 520. (This is all candidates, not just military). No 800 GMATs were accepted this year; I assume several (or maybe many) applied.
I am not part of HBS admissions and am not privy to their inner thoughts. I do see lots student resumes and career efforts, including many vets. My comments here are strictly unofficial. Please do not write me asking how to get in; this is all you need: do something that makes highly accomplished people say "Wow," or preferably "WOW!!"
Hi. I have 2 questions.
ReplyDeleteSimilar to Kandarp's question. How much would foreign military experience (in my case British) be valued?
Since by the time I graduate from university and comission as an officer,they will have pulled out of Afghanistan.Hence there will be less chance of operation duty. Will lack of operational experience hinder chances of entering business school (should I choose to go into the civilian world)?
I don't think operational experience (or lack thereof) in places like Afghanistan are significant discriminators. In other words, if you did or did not deploy will not be what drives the acceptance decision process. Everybody spends time in a unit; what you do with you life while you are in that unit is what matters (both in and out of the military). Successful MBAs find ways to be successful in any environment... that's part of what the school is looking for.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteGreat blog!
One question if I may regarding military veterans applying to top b-schools -
I read here http://www.aringo.com/Harvard_MBA.htm that Harvard is very fond of military leaders - is it true in your experience? do military leaders have an advantage at HBS? what about other schools?